I don’t know the answer to your ultimate question Annabelle re when/if to give up BUT I do know that half a breath later you were talking about writing prompts and future ideas regarding them .. soooo I’d say you’ll ALWAYS be a writer, it’s IN you.
This breaks my heart to read. You are such a talented writer and it would be such a shame for everyone if you were give up your creative endeavours. But then I totally understand why you would, when faced with such difficult circumstances. There is so little value placed on the works of artists in our capitalistic society. I truly value your creativity and talent.
I listened to an interview with Julie Louis Dreyfus and Patti Smith on Wiser than me. Then I had to listen to the divine audio book Just Kids about Patti Smith and Robert Mapplethorpe. Then I had to start listening to Patti Smith songs because the only one I'd heard was Because The Night.
It all got me thinking (again) about the starving artist, making it, deciding to prioritise family like Patti did.
Don't give up Annabel. But take a little step out of the dance of poverty if you can, and remember just three good hours a day is all Hilary Mantel said we needed to write.
Thanks for taking the time to comment, Pip, and thank you also so much for becoming a paid subscriber. It really does mean a lot, especially at this time. Three good hours a day! That seems a hell of a lot. I feel I am doing well I if manage three good hours a week!
Only stop writing when it no longer fills you with joy. That sounds like it won’t be happening any time soon, I hope, seeing as you are already writing another novel :)
I sincerely wish the best for you, hope you find a ‘day’ job to tide you over. Ps. I found your recent talk at Wanneroo library to be inspirational. That’s so worthwhile.
Thank you so much, Eleanor, and I really appreciate your feedback about my talk at the library. That means a lot. It is true that I still feel great after a writing session, so the work itself still does reward and fulfill me. It is the other part about getting my books out into the world that fills me with despair.
Thanks for sharing, Kate. The thing I struggle with is that if I work too much, I won't write at all. I am not the kind fo writer who will get up at 5am to get an hour in before work, and in the evenings I often feel too tired. so finding the balance is always a challenge. Interesting to read that despite your very healthy royalties, you still want the security of a 'day job'.
I dunno how healthy they are though. Some years it's $20k some years it's $60k but I like having more money than just that. I think one year it was six figures but you can't rely on it being the usual. I don't want to put that pressure on my book writing.
True! When I say 'healthy' i mean that you are making any significant money at all from your books. I made about $50K from my US-published book, but in Australia I have't made more than $4k on my books. So your royalties look very good to me. But if you compare them to a living wage, especially with today's costs of living, even 60K doesn't even come close.
Yep, it's even more impossible if you write for the Australian market. We don't have the population here to support the industry, same as the film industry.
I think this sort of insecurity is pretty perennial in our game. It just varies in its timing and severity. Barbara Pym published six popular novels in the 50's and 60's, before being unable to publish a seventh book for sixteen years. Her career was only revived after a TLS article named her as amongst the most underrated writers since the turn of the century. And that article came out only three years before she died.
I'm still trying to get a first book together. I would have been crestfallen if I'd been told ten years ago that it still wouldn't have happened by now. And it may never happen, even though I'm working towards it at least as hard as I ever have. In the intervening period I lost my other career (my non-creative writing day job), went broke, and had to retrain in something different. And was then obliged to relocate just to be able to start earning a living again.
All of this is just to lend credence to me saying that I know about the helplessness and despair you've written about here. The odds we play against can be terrifying and heart-breaking. So much worthy writing and creative labour goes unacknowledged, unmet, and unmourned.
Sometimes, some of us just have to be writers, no matter what. It's as simple, and as complex, as that.
If that's the case, then perhaps the process, with all its discoveries and surprises and aesthetic satisfactions, can be enough in the end. Even when we wanted more for our work, and for ourselves.
Thank you, Glen, for your thoughtful response. As simple and as complex as that. You're right. It's helpful to know I'm not alone, and I'm sorry to hear about all the struggles you've gone through with your first book.
Great read, thanks fr sharing. "I don't think that professional glory really changes your life. It might make life simpler, because you've got more money. But I think if you're an artist your entire life, you're wracked with doubt about yourself." The glory vs fame vs inner security triangle.
I started a reply and lost it but just to say - maybe a sideways move out of universities? This really got me thinking about Gabrielle Carey who I’ve recently become obsessed with. Partly because I’m effecting in my own choice to have a career or two or three before getting serious about writing.
A heartbroken University colleague wrote this article about her:
We have to write, don’t we? But how can we live better lives now, in this society we are in? Maybe a sideways switch to the non profit world where you can find a niche in an organisation doing meaningful work, with some tenure and time to write?
Just a thought. The switch to a writing prompt was a bit jarring but I think a testament to your generosity and passion as a writer. Sending love and writerly vibes
Thanks so much for this link. I'm the same; i feel angry about the situation and so many academics I know feel the same. If they are tenured, they are wrung out and ground down, with new responsibilities constantly added; if they are casual they are always at risk of being jobless. I have done some work in the NFP sector but is so so incredibly poorly paid. I had to work 3 times as many hours in my NFP role to earn the same as I earned for teaching. It was great to do work that felt meaningful though.
In my experience it's only through sheer undeniable talent and/or exceptional charisma and/or extraordinary luck and timing that an artist will make it. So so few make a living from art.
It's a devastating realisation that after all the immense unwavering work, all the conquering of doubts, all the tireless self-belief, all the refining and crafting of skills, all the 10,000 plus 'expert' hours, all the love, heart, soul, blood, tears, highs, lows, all the growth as a human, humanitarian and artist.. that one may never achieve the heights one aspires - especially to make a living from it. That often people just aren't interested or care.
One may eventually have to resign to the fact that we live in a system, that although cognisant of art, is not built upon individuality, creativity or soulfulness. It's built on currency and commodities, and in our modern lives, narcissism.
The greatest artistic journey's one may make, may not have any monetary reward. That does not mean you/we are not 'artists'.
The majority of the greatest artists of humanity lived and died poor and unknown. But they live the most beautiful, spiritual, authentic lives. In this often false and misguided world, that's something to celebrate. Something to hold dear and sacred to our heart. And if we can genuinely move even just one person, make a difference to even just a few, that is maybe all we can hope for, and be grateful for. And this energy can come back in different ways.
Living in this 'system' we do of course have to pay the bills. You have a beautiful energy, Annabel, something will appear. Something amazing can always happen out of the blue where/when we least expect it. There is no failure, though, one never fails at art, there's only opportunity to grow in new directions.
Dear Wayne, it's so lovely to hear from you, and thank you for your heartfelt response. Yes, the system. I hate the systems we live in more and more! It is good to be reminded that if we make a difference even to a few people, we haven't 'failed'. Really appreciate your kind words xxx
I don’t know the answer to your ultimate question Annabelle re when/if to give up BUT I do know that half a breath later you were talking about writing prompts and future ideas regarding them .. soooo I’d say you’ll ALWAYS be a writer, it’s IN you.
You got me there, Bern! Sigh, you're probably right.
This breaks my heart to read. You are such a talented writer and it would be such a shame for everyone if you were give up your creative endeavours. But then I totally understand why you would, when faced with such difficult circumstances. There is so little value placed on the works of artists in our capitalistic society. I truly value your creativity and talent.
Thank you, my beautiful friend. xxx
I listened to an interview with Julie Louis Dreyfus and Patti Smith on Wiser than me. Then I had to listen to the divine audio book Just Kids about Patti Smith and Robert Mapplethorpe. Then I had to start listening to Patti Smith songs because the only one I'd heard was Because The Night.
It all got me thinking (again) about the starving artist, making it, deciding to prioritise family like Patti did.
Don't give up Annabel. But take a little step out of the dance of poverty if you can, and remember just three good hours a day is all Hilary Mantel said we needed to write.
Wishing you all the good things.
Thanks for taking the time to comment, Pip, and thank you also so much for becoming a paid subscriber. It really does mean a lot, especially at this time. Three good hours a day! That seems a hell of a lot. I feel I am doing well I if manage three good hours a week!
Only stop writing when it no longer fills you with joy. That sounds like it won’t be happening any time soon, I hope, seeing as you are already writing another novel :)
I sincerely wish the best for you, hope you find a ‘day’ job to tide you over. Ps. I found your recent talk at Wanneroo library to be inspirational. That’s so worthwhile.
Thank you so much, Eleanor, and I really appreciate your feedback about my talk at the library. That means a lot. It is true that I still feel great after a writing session, so the work itself still does reward and fulfill me. It is the other part about getting my books out into the world that fills me with despair.
Always put paid work ahead of your writing, always. The writing is a nice to have but security is better. I write about it here. Sending love and good money vibes to you . https://kateforster.substack.com/p/how-i-make-a-living-as-a-writer-vs?utm_source=activity_item
Thanks for sharing, Kate. The thing I struggle with is that if I work too much, I won't write at all. I am not the kind fo writer who will get up at 5am to get an hour in before work, and in the evenings I often feel too tired. so finding the balance is always a challenge. Interesting to read that despite your very healthy royalties, you still want the security of a 'day job'.
I dunno how healthy they are though. Some years it's $20k some years it's $60k but I like having more money than just that. I think one year it was six figures but you can't rely on it being the usual. I don't want to put that pressure on my book writing.
True! When I say 'healthy' i mean that you are making any significant money at all from your books. I made about $50K from my US-published book, but in Australia I have't made more than $4k on my books. So your royalties look very good to me. But if you compare them to a living wage, especially with today's costs of living, even 60K doesn't even come close.
Yep, it's even more impossible if you write for the Australian market. We don't have the population here to support the industry, same as the film industry.
I think this sort of insecurity is pretty perennial in our game. It just varies in its timing and severity. Barbara Pym published six popular novels in the 50's and 60's, before being unable to publish a seventh book for sixteen years. Her career was only revived after a TLS article named her as amongst the most underrated writers since the turn of the century. And that article came out only three years before she died.
I'm still trying to get a first book together. I would have been crestfallen if I'd been told ten years ago that it still wouldn't have happened by now. And it may never happen, even though I'm working towards it at least as hard as I ever have. In the intervening period I lost my other career (my non-creative writing day job), went broke, and had to retrain in something different. And was then obliged to relocate just to be able to start earning a living again.
All of this is just to lend credence to me saying that I know about the helplessness and despair you've written about here. The odds we play against can be terrifying and heart-breaking. So much worthy writing and creative labour goes unacknowledged, unmet, and unmourned.
Sometimes, some of us just have to be writers, no matter what. It's as simple, and as complex, as that.
If that's the case, then perhaps the process, with all its discoveries and surprises and aesthetic satisfactions, can be enough in the end. Even when we wanted more for our work, and for ourselves.
I hope this helps. Sending all good thoughts.
Thank you, Glen, for your thoughtful response. As simple and as complex as that. You're right. It's helpful to know I'm not alone, and I'm sorry to hear about all the struggles you've gone through with your first book.
Here's a little more grist for the same mill, Annabel:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-07-01/joanna-murray-smith-julia-australian-playwright-uncle-vanya/104029400
Great read, thanks fr sharing. "I don't think that professional glory really changes your life. It might make life simpler, because you've got more money. But I think if you're an artist your entire life, you're wracked with doubt about yourself." The glory vs fame vs inner security triangle.
I started a reply and lost it but just to say - maybe a sideways move out of universities? This really got me thinking about Gabrielle Carey who I’ve recently become obsessed with. Partly because I’m effecting in my own choice to have a career or two or three before getting serious about writing.
A heartbroken University colleague wrote this article about her:
https://independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/iconic-writers-early-death-a-sign-of-how-we-treat-writers-and-scholars,17698
We have to write, don’t we? But how can we live better lives now, in this society we are in? Maybe a sideways switch to the non profit world where you can find a niche in an organisation doing meaningful work, with some tenure and time to write?
Just a thought. The switch to a writing prompt was a bit jarring but I think a testament to your generosity and passion as a writer. Sending love and writerly vibes
Thanks so much for this link. I'm the same; i feel angry about the situation and so many academics I know feel the same. If they are tenured, they are wrung out and ground down, with new responsibilities constantly added; if they are casual they are always at risk of being jobless. I have done some work in the NFP sector but is so so incredibly poorly paid. I had to work 3 times as many hours in my NFP role to earn the same as I earned for teaching. It was great to do work that felt meaningful though.
Reflecting on my choice . Not effecting 🙃
I do sincerely feel for you, Annabel.
In my experience it's only through sheer undeniable talent and/or exceptional charisma and/or extraordinary luck and timing that an artist will make it. So so few make a living from art.
It's a devastating realisation that after all the immense unwavering work, all the conquering of doubts, all the tireless self-belief, all the refining and crafting of skills, all the 10,000 plus 'expert' hours, all the love, heart, soul, blood, tears, highs, lows, all the growth as a human, humanitarian and artist.. that one may never achieve the heights one aspires - especially to make a living from it. That often people just aren't interested or care.
One may eventually have to resign to the fact that we live in a system, that although cognisant of art, is not built upon individuality, creativity or soulfulness. It's built on currency and commodities, and in our modern lives, narcissism.
The greatest artistic journey's one may make, may not have any monetary reward. That does not mean you/we are not 'artists'.
The majority of the greatest artists of humanity lived and died poor and unknown. But they live the most beautiful, spiritual, authentic lives. In this often false and misguided world, that's something to celebrate. Something to hold dear and sacred to our heart. And if we can genuinely move even just one person, make a difference to even just a few, that is maybe all we can hope for, and be grateful for. And this energy can come back in different ways.
Living in this 'system' we do of course have to pay the bills. You have a beautiful energy, Annabel, something will appear. Something amazing can always happen out of the blue where/when we least expect it. There is no failure, though, one never fails at art, there's only opportunity to grow in new directions.
Love Wayne
Dear Wayne, it's so lovely to hear from you, and thank you for your heartfelt response. Yes, the system. I hate the systems we live in more and more! It is good to be reminded that if we make a difference even to a few people, we haven't 'failed'. Really appreciate your kind words xxx